I hold the same opinion. BELEIVE ME WHEN I SAY THE PEOPLE IN CHARGE HAVE NO THOUGHT OF BEING FAIR. that's why the rules help the people that run against low numbers. PERSUING hoy in Va where we run fox with a full house of hounds is going to take a much stronger hound. the amount of money spent to compete against a stacked deck is staggering.Im sure they will continue to take our money. I DONT BELEIVE THEY WILL CHANGE its a business and they are making money. we hear in va better get use to it or move. Or maybe just foxhunt for fun and forget hoy. Please remember that the person at the top of OY competes in hoy every year and usually wins he NOT going even attempt to be fair or ever bring them winning hounds to the greatest FOX pen in the world ie POOLES FOX PEN and compete against a full house. AT least I have never heard of that happening. YALL COME ON TO POOLES AN GET SUM at va st if you really got a nice hound you should want to the running wont break down and FOR SURE NO game will be getting out of the pen like another place that we have been this year happy hunting players and ghoodluck to all the hounds up at top of hoy JBIRD MCGEE VA BREEZE KENNEL

Come on guys, Gee whiz… Not Fair, really? Why don’t you just say it, Life isn’t fair!! Yea, I said it, Life isn’t fair!! The College Football playoffs are not fair, the Nascar Cup series are not fair, the World Series are not fair, puppy hunts aren’t fair. I’ll be the first to admit, Nothing is perfect. But for competitors, it’s fair because Everyone field trialing, playing baseball, driving a car, etc. is playing by the same rules when their on the field and it’s a free country so you can go where you choose.

First off, as far as the leaderboard rules go, there is a lot of effort put into leveling the playing field to make it as fair as possible for everyone in all states:
1. There is limits on the number of times a hound can place in any pen – 4
2. There is a maximum limit on the number of trials that count for any given Kennel, Sire and Dam – 12, yes, 12 no matter how many puppies are on the ground.
3. There is maximum limit on the number of people that can be in a kennel – 4
4. There is a minimum limit on the number of hounds that have to be entered for 100% to be awarded from the base points.
And so on…
And not fair? No one from Virginia should make that statement, I mean show some respect and let me introduce you to your fellow Virginian’s, Colt Copeland, W.T. Davenport, Louis Callahan, Frank Patterson, Brandon Whisenant and Brandon MaGee, Richie Wallace and the list goes on. Yea, they are all in the Top 20 in one or more categories and they all live in Virginia.
Now, remember we had a statistical lesson for several folks last week:
a. If someone enters and runs 24 hounds and the rest of the field run 140+ and the 24 entries HGA in 11 of the 20 spots, then 14% of the entries out ran the entire field and took 55% of the trophies, plus categories.

Now, this week’s lesson:

There are 4 categories in the Leaderboard, HOY, SOY, DOY and KOY:
a. Virginia is leading 2 of the 4 categories – 50%
b. Virginia has 6 of the top 20 in HOY – 30%
c. Virginia has 5 of the top 20 in KOY – 25%
d. Virginia has 2 of the top 20 in SOY - 10%
You get it – Virginia is Dominating the Leaderboard compared to the other 18 states.

And who is the individual dominating HOY every year?
1. 2014 – McMillan’s Little D - Mississippi
2. 2015 – Bennett’s Bruce Leroy - Mississippi
3. 2016 – SS Flo Jo – Florida

So, I looked it up and between the two of you, you have been to 5+ trials each in 2017. Between the two of you, it appears you have placed a total of 4 hounds in 10+ trials. No, you’re not going to get into the top 20 by those statistics. That might be lesson 3 for next week. But I guess it’s not fair.

In closing let me say, by the end of the year, the Leaderboard committee will ask for suggestions on rule changes. We have always respected all comments and considered changes that were reasonable and fair to the entire country; fair as possible to all 18 states. Maybe you two can put your heads together and come up with some suggestions that would make the leaderboard fairer, you know, so that Virginia isn’t “Dominating the field”. Based on the stats above for Virginia, someone will probably want to count trials on fox as 50% so they can get an advantage in the south.

This is all I have to say on this subject tonight, I’m headed to get ready to run dogs in the am. Happy hunting.

I apologize if my post rubbed anyone the wrong way. I was simply trying to offer constructive criticism to better meet the end of the leaderboard's intention. The basis of my criticism roots itself in the idea that the best of the OY'S ought to compete in the most prestigious competitions and engage the competition against the most numbers. I post my thoughts on this public forum in hope to draw support and to encourage the leaderboard committee to better strive for and perfect their metric for the mission they claim to uphold. As men, I'd like to have a thoughtful debate and refrain from personal attacks.

In addition, I never argued that I was personally treated unfairly. Even with a perfect metric, I don't have a horse in that race and I know that. My passion comes out of respect for those who do.

Happy hunting and all the best,
Todd Miller
(804) 296-5826

Jbird how is the leaderboard taking all your money or the hunters money. You should know after the big year you had not long ago that the Leaderboard pays out all the money that is sent in from the hunts back to the hunters that are fortunate to finish in top of the 4 categories. We also take in money and donations from corporate sponsors and pay that all back to the hunters. Thanks for everyone's support and thanks for the great job Clif Parker. Please send your suggestion.

Old 74 would like to invite Mr. Miller and Mr. McGee to come and run or judge at Old 74 any time they would like. Todd I remember you as a child coming with your parents to Pools and I have nothing but the upmost respect for your parents and I am sure you have grown up to be a fine young man. Mr. McGee we have met and I feel like I treated you with respect.
As far as entries are concerned we would love to have more at our hunts but we have no control over that. We do our best to put on honest and fair hunts with some of the best MOH and judges in the country. To my knowledge we are the only pen in NC that post the top 20 judges score sheets daily at each hunt we put on. We have a first class facility that will bring out the best or worst in a hound. We have an abundance of coyotes along with reds and greys.
The hunts that we put on are for the most part Masters hunt’s, because we like the transparency of being able to post judges scores daily and the 5 min. GTP. We have nothing against National or AFHA rules and are willing to host a hunt for any organization. The 2017 USO was held for 3 days at Old 74 with day 4 being ran at C & M. From all accounts I have heard from it was one of the better USO’s ever.
I truly believe we wouldn’t be having this discussion if Forty Creek Spot was not leading HOY at this time. I would like to remind you it’s a long way to Jan. and a lot of things can and probably will change. If you like hard running and great competition we would like to invite you to Old 74. But I warn you 300 a day and 20 points hunting will not win a three day at Old 74 regardless of the rules you run under. Maybe that’s why our numbers are down.
Mr. Miller I look forward to meeting you again and competing with you at a hunt soon.
To be the best you have to beat the best.
Forty Creek Spot field trial record since Oct. 2016
12TH 2016 Top Gun
10TH 2016 World Cup
5TH 2017 USO
2ND CRHA Money Hunt
F & D 2017 Mid-South Masters
Dual East Coast Masters 2017
F & D 2017 NC Masters
2ND GTP Southland OPEN
Coming soon to a hunt near you

Mr. Ray, you obviously have a very fine hound. I want you to know that I've had my concerns about the Leaderboard since I was first introduced to it a few years ago and read the rules from start to finish. Spot being the current HOY leader just happens to be a coincidence of the points I'm trying to make. I wish you and Spot the best in the final months of this year. I've also heard nothing but good things about the facility you guys have down there. Coincidentally, I actually have 3 numbers to attend the hunt there next weekend. (Still unsure if I'll be able to attend as of now though.) Regardless, I look forward to venturing out that way soon.

As for the leaderboard, it's evident from current and past standings that the wise strategy to best compete and win HOY is to compete often and at hunts with low entries to inherently have a better probability of placing and gaining more points. Hosting these events at your facility is probably an added bonus! However, the most significant requisite to this strategy is having a superior hound that is able to compete. It behooves the leaderboard committee to develop a metric with as much merit as possible to award the top hounds and individuals as fairly as possible. To that end, I encourage the leaderboard committee to perfect their metric to better reward those that travel and compete in different pens and and at hunts with longstanding re****tions that typically attract much larger entries. I've been encouraging this for quite some time, and while the leaderboard is getting closer to doing so, they still have a ways to go.

As for me personally, since that's of interest, I've been to 5 leaderboard eligible hunts this year. I've competed against approximately 1,683 hounds, and I've placed 5 dogs in the top 10. A lot of hunts that I parti****te in give a lot of money to the leaderboard. In the last two years, the association that I am currently president has given them $763. I even asked Clif to master the hunt this past year, and, from a hunter's perspective, he did one of the best jobs I've ever seen. My comments are not an attack on any particular individual or his or her hounds. My comments are sincere, and I expect a respectable response.

Todd I take no offense what so ever to your comments. I once felt much the same way you do but now have a different perspective on small hunts. Quantity does not always mean quality. This is a debate I got into several years ago with some friends out west. Their hunts had anywhere from 50 to 150 dogs while I was going to hunts with 500 or more every month. So I took the challenge and headed West and didn’t fair too well. I personally like smaller hunts not because I think I have a better chance to win, but because the hounds are going to be looked at a lot closer. Quality judges in smaller hunts will almost always pick the better hound. You eliminate a lot of the luck factor in smaller hunts. Nothing is perfect and this is just one Old Fat Mans opinion. I have been on both side of the fence and am not saying I am right, just what I think. 2 of those top 15 hounds were from Virginia and two more compete at major hunts all over the country. We have our suitcases packed and are getting ready to hit the road with Spot and Copper James and see what happens. We like competing against the best and only want what is best for the sport. From a pen operators stand point we would like to see more hounds, but will take what we get and be happy. Hope you able to make it and look forward to seeing you.

Thanks Mr. Ray! I admire and hope to one day be in your position! We all have differing opinions, but rather than resulting to ad hominem attacks, open and thoughtful debate help foster good opinions! I've always believed that a good hound, it doesn't matter where he goes or how many competitors he has, he ought to do well and be competitive every time, if he is truly a good hound.

Good luck and I wish you all the best!