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    Re: Why don't you see scratching at one day s&d anymore

    I know that going to 4 hours for most hunts has made the biggest difference. I know the last hunt I judged, we scratched right many hounds, but if it were a 5 hour hunt, I think you would have seen twice as many go down for loafing, if not more.

    I like a 5 hour hunt when it comes to picking the true hound, but that fifth hour is tough on the game. So, I completely understand going to four hours. I know it is easier on the judges. lol



    Re: Why don't you see scratching at one day s&d anymore

    There is a lot of truth in Brandon's post but I would ask that every running hound man that runs in a pen please put yourself in the shoes of the ones that are responsible for the game in the pen. Does it matter why the hounds are in the road when the result is the same as far as good running conditions are concerned?

    I was at a hunt recently and it was a good hunt so no criticism here. Every time a crossing came through there would be a pack running the game and a pack in the road waiting for the game to come out. At the next crossing those road dogs would get their score but meanwhile the next pack of road dogs had already got 100 yards ahead of them by ambushing the game in that next road. A few minutes later you hear the baying start. We are essentially running relay races where a new pack tags in at every road crossing and takes away the lead that the coyote has earned on the pack that was running him up to the road. The dogs are mostly good to great. They can run game right when they are on it. They have no choice but to try to get back to the front when they get cut. But we can not continue field trialing this way. Nobody is benefiting. The $$$ didn't cause the problem. The same amount of money would still be out there to win if we stopped the relay tag team racing and went back to actually running game honestly.
    Some folks have come up with a system of deducting points from hounds seen in the road. That might be a more workable solution that scratching them because you would scratch virtually every dog in a hunt if you scratched them for road running. If you took 10 or 20 points away from SD score for every time a hound was seen cutting in the road ahead of the game maybe it would balance out and help us reward the kind of hounds we need to be running to keep these pens open long term.

    Re: Why don't you see scratching at one day s&d anymore

    I THINK PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO COMPARE OR WANTING THESE PEN DOGS TO RUN LIKE THEY ON THE OUTSIDE.

    Re: Why don't you see scratching at one day s&d anymore

    I want them to RUN like a foxhound. Not anything else. Doesn't matter where they are. I got a couple that you cant get in between them and what they are running. Period. But you can screw up a good race with hounds cutting game off and bobbling it. I agree that I want mine to get to the front but not by guessing and cutting down a road.
    Not to analogize but any other sport you would be livid if someone cheated, cut through the infield to get ahead of something they couldn't catch up too. C'mon, surely a good houndsman realizes that he wants a hound that can pull up on the hound in front of him and make it bobble by extreme pressure so that it has to get out of the way. That is how a POWERFUL hound does it.
    This cutting bull is not good. Not good for a race, not good for game, not good for hounds. If we scratched these hounds that have to fall out and cheat to get back to the front then we would end up with a lot stronger breed of hound.
    Was very proud of one of my good friends at our pen months back. Had a hound that almost won one of our hunts, he along with everyone else there saw it cutting and cheating to get to the front a lot. He GAVE it away right there.Didn't leave the pen with it. By the way he has a couple right now that place in every hunt he takes em to, that don't do that.
    I also agree whole heartedly that a good hound doesn't run behind.A good hound also knows how to handle pressure, peeling out and cheating ain't how I handle pressure.

    Re: Why don't you see scratching at one day s&d anymore

    Brian Haas
    I want them to RUN like a foxhound. Not anything else. Doesn't matter where they are. I got a couple that you cant get in between them and what they are running. Period. But you can screw up a good race with hounds cutting game off and bobbling it. I agree that I want mine to get to the front but not by guessing and cutting down a road.
    Not to analogize but any other sport you would be livid if someone cheated, cut through the infield to get ahead of something they couldn't catch up too. C'mon, surely a good houndsman realizes that he wants a hound that can pull up on the hound in front of him and make it bobble by extreme pressure so that it has to get out of the way. That is how a POWERFUL hound does it.
    This cutting bull is not good. Not good for a race, not good for game, not good for hounds. If we scratched these hounds that have to fall out and cheat to get back to the front then we would end up with a lot stronger breed of hound.
    Was very proud of one of my good friends at our pen months back. Had a hound that almost won one of our hunts, he along with everyone else there saw it cutting and cheating to get to the front a lot. He GAVE it away right there.Didn't leave the pen with it. By the way he has a couple right now that place in every hunt he takes em to, that don't do that.
    I also agree whole heartedly that a good hound doesn't run behind.A good hound also knows how to handle pressure, peeling out and cheating ain't how I handle pressure.


    I haven't read this whole thread yet, but as of now this is this best post.

    Re: Why don't you see scratching at one day s&d anymore

    THERE AIN'T A HOUND OUT THERE THAT DON'T CUT IN THESE FOX PENS!THERE IS NOT AWAY AROUND IT!IF THEY ARE TRAINED IN A PEN & RUN WITH BIG PACKS,THEY WILL USE THE WOODS & THE ROADS TO CUT THE FRONT!YOU WILL NEVER PUT ON A FIELDTRIAL WITH BIG NUMBERS & THIS NOT HAPPEN!THERE ARE DOGS THAT RUN TO MUCH TRACK THAT AIN'T WORTH A FLIP EITHER!THE ONLY WAY TO CUT DOWN ON THIS IS CUT DOWN ON #'S AT HUNTS!

    I AGREE SOME OF THESE DOGS LIVE IN THE ROAD THAT CAN'T RUN NOTHING OR THEY THEY CAN'T KEEP UP OR THERE ARE SOME HOUNDS THAT ARE NOT IN SHAPE ENOUGH TO BE IN A HUNT!

    I HAVE HERD THIS FOR YEARS,GUYS THAT PLEASURE HUNT UP HERE AROUND THE HOUSE TALKING ABOUT SWINGING HOUNDS!I HAVE BEEN WITH EM TO HEAR THERE HOUNDS RUN AT NIGHT & THERE HOUNDS DOING THE SAME THING AS ANYBODY ELSE'S HOUNDS!MOST GOOD HOUNDS ARE GOING TO THE FRONT!

    Re: Why don't you see scratching at one day s&d anymore

    If hounds on the outside would run like the hounds run in pens it would be perfect. You could catch every piece of game you got after. But unfortunately the dogs can't get ahead of a race outside unless the game decides to turn back. In a pen the game is forced to turn back and the dogs have plenty of chances to get ahead of the race.

    There is no game animal on earth that can hold up to being spiked at every road crossing with hounds that are lined up to run the next leg of the relay.
    The game has to work hard to earn a lead on the pack that is running him. The dogs in the road are stealing that hard earned lead and forcing the game to expend his energy over and over again to gain another lead on the most recent pack that tagged in at the last crossing.
    There are not a dozen hounds in America that can flat out run the air out of a healthy athletic coyote. They are out there but few and far between. The trouble we have with keeping continuous running at field trials is due to the dishonest hounds "cheating" on the game. It is wrong to call it cheating because we have not had a rule against it in a long time. We created the problem by not having a rule in place to penalize the hounds that are most guilty. Almost every hound is guilty to some degree but some are worse criminals than others. If we had a system that made it less advantageous for hounds to steal then maybe we could breed some honest hounds that were great running hounds with a lot of speed. A lot of hounds today that are thought of as having speed are actually just very cunning.
    If NASCAR allowed drivers to cut across the infield or if baseball allowed runners to go from 1st to 3rd without touching 2nd base then those sports would look alot different. We have failed to stop the "cheating" hounds and as a result we have encouraged it and promoted the most dishonest hounds as the fastest and the best.
    Cutting down the numbers at field trials helps a lot but the same thing happens with 25 and 30 hounds unless there is a piece of game for every hound to run by himslef.

    Re: Why don't you see scratching at one day s&d anymore

    If a hound is trained in the pen he is going to get in the road.Ill come run with who ever or come watch who evers hounds & I will see ur hounds cutting in a road.Im not bashing or trying to argue.Its just a fact.I try not to have a road running dog but they will use it if they need to.They will make others hounds get in a road also.Its the pen making the hounds do this more than just breeding

    Re: Why don't you see scratching at one day s&d anymore

    If you had a field trial and the judges wrote down every time they saw each hound running down the road or cutting in front of a race and then at the end of the day the Master of Hounds deducted 10 points from S&D for each observation you would have some hounds lose 30 or 40 points and other hounds lose 150 or 160 points. Maybe that would allow the less roady hounds to compete with the cutting hounds that spend more time in the road and less time in the race.

    Re: Why don't you see scratching at one day s&d anymore

    Go run a gray fox, inside or outside. That'll show you what you're feeding. If you are happy with plastic or embarrassed amongst your buddies.....it is what it is.

    Re: Why don't you see scratching at one day s&d anymore

    I AM NOT BASHING ANYBODY OR THERE DOGS!I'M JUST SAYING THAT AS LONG AS YOU TRAIN & RUN IN A FOX PEN YOU WILL ALWAYS HAVE DOGS IN ROAD.IT'S BEEN LIKE THIS SINCE WE HAD TO START RUNNING IN PEN.I PERSONALLY DON'T THINK IT TAKE A GREYFOX TO FIND WHAT YOU FEEDING.MOST FOX DON'T LAST LONG WHEN WE RUN EM!I RECALL LAST SEVERAL FOX I'VE SEEN RAN WAS NOT A LONG RACE.HR TOPS.

    Re: Why don't you see scratching at one day s&d anymore

    Go run by yourself...no one else in the pen or woods with your best 4 or 5 dogs. The ones you want a trophy with or if you do not trial the ones you think will get it done. 99.9999% of the "dogmen" on this site will hang their heads. Crickets chirping inside the wire is not a good feeling.....

    Re: Why don't you see scratching at one day s&d anymore

    I AGREE THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE FIELDTRIAL DOGS THAT WORK OFF OTHER DOGS!I HAVE OWNED SOME LIKE THAT MY SELF!I ALSO GOT SOME RITE NOW YOU WILL LIKE!

    Re: Why don't you see scratching at one day s&d anymore

    Come on I guarantee you won't see any road running. If you do, you can have em. Different views on what a foxhound should be.
    We will have a great time, 240 acres, cook for you and we will figure this out. We all want the fast hound I just think you are not being critical enough of how a hound is fast. I know you got some good ones but I guess we should over look babbling, and all other faults if they just can win a 4 hr hunt? If a dog can't get to the front and has to fall out to cut, I'm sorry but that is a fault. He ain't fast, he is cunning. Be more critical of our hounds folks. Don't buy into they all do it. The good ones dont

    Re: Why don't you see scratching at one day s&d anymore

    GO AHEAD BRIAN I AGREE WITH YOU 100% IVE HAD SOME THAT COULD MAKE A DOG GET IN THE ROAD AND MAKE THEM CUT BUT STILL COULD NOT GET IN FRONT OF THEM A TRUE TRACK RUNNING DOG WITH SPEED WILL BEAT A CUTTER MOST OF THE TIME I WILL NOT FEED A CUTTING DOG IVE GIVE PLENTY OF THEM AWAY

    Re: Why don't you see scratching at one day s&d anymore

    Amen. Everyone has different views and its all good. Foxhunting is about fun. Hope everyone has fun and understands, raise what you like and don't put the other man down. The topic was SCRATCHING and I think it is a very good topic. We need to do a lot more of it to raise and show what type of hounds should be accepted.
    Oh and Rodney, any you got to give away, I will take 2 like Chopstix. Let me know when I can pick em up. HaHaHaHa

    Re: Why don't you see scratching at one day s&d anymore

    Amen. Everyone has different views and its all good. Foxhunting is about fun. Hope everyone has fun and understands, raise what you like and don't put the other man down. The topic was SCRATCHING and I think it is a very good topic. We need to do a lot more of it to raise and show what type of hounds should be accepted.
    Oh and Rodney, any you got to give away, I will take 2 like Chopstix. Let me know when I can pick em up. HaHaHaHa

    Re: Why don't you see scratching at one day s&d anymore

    BRIAN WISH SHE WAS STILL ALIVE ONLY GOT ONE LITTER OFF OF HER I KNOW YOU REMEMBER HER SIRE CHASE AND HER GRANDSIRE ON BOTTOM WHIPLASH

    Re: Why don't you see scratching at one day s&d anymore

    Its all about the pay out and the next hunt and getting the score any way it takes.....Why make a man mad scratching his dog and him not come back next time? Money and glory and individual accomplishments are drags on any activity.

    Re: Why don't you see scratching at one day s&d anymore

    take a extra special ***** to mighty man ,u make get that special 12 also who ever in south Carolina that owns ch. jj blaze goe breed her back to mighty man I will give u 300.00 for every pup she has at 7weeks old ive got 2 0ff her 12m0nths old that can breath the same air as that athetlic yote can