Come !!! Really !!! Talking about beating a dead horse

Michael;

Some of the same issues can come up in North Carolina as well.

North Carolina hunters are fortunate to have extremely good lobbyist's that seem to stay on top of issues there.
And you are fortunate to have several organizations that work together toward a common goal!! A great thing!

Virginia has some very passionate people on both sides of the various issues at hand. And usually the best way to arrive at "common ground" is through discussion of the issues!

As long as it is done in a civil manner, on BOTH sides, I will let the discussions continue. If they get out of hand, I will DELETE the entire discussion.

Although you may or may not agree about the discussion, it is my opinion that some good can be derived, & if it starts to bring together just a portion of the hunters in Virginia, then it has been a good thing.

With the efforts of many, we have had passed compromise legislation to allow the Fox Preserves in Virginia to continue to operate. Neither side was in total agreement on the bill, but in the end, compromise was made on both sides.

Hopefully the same will happen with the Sunday Hunting & Hound Hunting situation. As I said before, if there isn't a coming together and understanding of some sort, it could bring an end to all hunting. That may seem far-fetched, but if you look at actions taken in other states by animal rights & anti-hunting organizations, it can easily happen.

Be glad that it is not the situation in North Carolina, BUT y'all need to keep your eyes and ears open, because such a threat could be just around the corner. For the hunters of North Carolina, I hope you don't have to become engaged in a fight for hunting rights, hound hunting or otherwise!

Allan Bishop
(Jabber Jaw)

PS: Anyone does have the ability to "skip" over the posts which do not interest them!

Allan I believe you are giving a platform to wolves in sheeps clothing

AMEN ON THE WOLVES MICHAEL!!!! I think the houndsmen/hunters have let the sunday issue go but u still see the SAME people getting on here and bashing the biggest backer of the houndsman. I'm a little baffled myself on why this is tolerated on a HOUND HUNTING website.

Michael & Paul, you are entitled to your opinion.

If this or any other post get out of hand, rest assured I will delete it.

I felt that some discussion could be good for both sides.

You may or may not agree, & that's fine.

This is primarily a hound hunting site, & will remain so, but there have been many topics discussed over the years!

Not being smart, but if you have no interest in the posts, skip over them, or ignore them.

Allan Bishop
(Jabber Jaw)

Allen you are a good guy and have a thankless job but this is a hound hunting site....the majority of the guys posting about the vahda are not pro-hound and I would guess that some are 100% anti dog...pen or outside....I respect there views and agree to disagree but I agree that it's getting old....I also troll the other sites and I see their comments and that includes the Sunday hunting Facebook page....when people start making comments about stopping the dog bashing because they have a reason...I get very cautious....the Hackett/butch team may not be perfect and I didnt agree with all their positions BUT at least I knew what side they were on and weren't trying to stab me in the back....

I agree with you Mike. The most of these cats that come on here that are commenting that don't hunt with dogs that claim not to be against dog hunting definitely bear watching. I for one can tell you that the day that I can't run deer, fox or coyotes with dogs is the day that I will no longer buy a hunting license and I'm a member of two hunting clubs and I can guarantee you that both clubs will fold if hound hunting were to come to an end. It would be a snowball effect in this area. The DGIF depends on hunting license sales and I can tell you that they will be hurting for money in my area with no dog hunting not to mention all the other businesses in my area. I would be affraid to say what I spend a year surrounding dog hunting. Whether it be on deer hunting, fox hunting, feed bills, vet bills, dog supplies OR GASOLINE. Dog Hunting is my passion. It's about that roar for me. I deer hunted 5 straight weeks this past season. The last several years I haven't worked on an average but 3-6 days the whole season. I have some friends that usually give me a hard time because I get to hunt so much but I usually tell them that when they were at the BEACH,FISHING or whatever I was working. I do some type of dog hunting 12 months out of the year and my wife will attest to that. She is the reason that I always say that I don't know a man alive with young kids that tries to do right, that has it better than me.

MEade,

You hunt with hounds - You're a hunter!

I choose to bowhunt - I'm a hunter!

You and I may hunt different methods but we have so much more in common than with anyone in the anti's ranks. This whole stupid debate has put hunters against hunters in this state and that isn't good for any of us.

I want you to look at things from the perspective of those of us that have been battling to have our rights as hunters expanded in this state. We watched as fellow hunters chose to argue against us with anti's...how would that make you feel if the same thing happened to you? There was a wedge driven between the ranks of Virginia hunters primarily from the organization that you allude to that has left a lot of open sores. It is time to move on and stop all this craziness.

Hound hunting is always going to be in the spotlight due to its visibility to the general public and especially the anti's. The anti's view it as the low hanging fruit in their battle to remove our rights as hunters. All of us need to stop arguing over our differences and start coming together for what ultimately binds us...WE ARE ALL HUNTERS! We all need to band together because the anti's will never stop their attacks against us, they will continue to try to erode our rights as hunters. We are so much stronger together than we are fragmented.

One Virginia, one voice...the voice of unified hunters!

I have an interesting question for many of you on here. Can you show where the Sunday Hunting has done anything with any lawmaking body to curtail or end hunting with hounds? Yes there are individuals that are against hound hunting but can you show us one instance where the group actively did this or worked in cooperation with any other group to accomplish this. There are many posts on here that say they do this but no proof of any kind except rumours have been shown. Would really like to see where these are coming from.

Wow!!! 1100 views in less than 24 hrs with a 8 word post that pointed out nothing or no one !! That tells me Allen you have more traffic than the James river when the fish are thick.if you are vegetarian and they outlawed meat I don't think your lifestyle changes

Rob you are right we HUNTERS need to stick together, but around here it ain't just the still hunters not liking the dog hunters and vice versa. I hear Bow Hunters all the time raising **ll about Crossbow Hunters. They say that ain't Bow Hunting. My reply never changes when it comes to that arguement, because my reply is that "THE INDIANS DIDN'T HAVE COMPOUND BOWS EITHER". I don't care what person uses to hunt with. They can use a spitball gun for all that I care. I just want to be left alone. A few years ago when I was a member of the VA Deer Hunters Association I took their survey on Sunday Hunting and I wasn't in favor of it. I got out of the Va Deer Hunters Association because it appeared to me they were geared toward still hunters and didn't support dog hunting, so I stopped supporting them. I do muzzle load hunt, but on a very limited basis. I bought my muzzle loading license last season and I never picked up the muzzle loader the whole season (by choice).When it comes to the Sunday Hunting Debate. I still don't intend to hunt on Sunday (by choice). I might change. I'm not mad nor raising **ll about Sunday Hunting as long as I can run my dogs the other 6 days and NOT GET THE LAW CALLED ON ME FOR HUNTING WITH DOGS ON SUNDAY by some on these lunatics that we have in the area when I'm getting them up on Sunday morning. Like I said before I will quit buying a hunting license when I can't run my dogs. We as hunters better get on the same page or none of us will need a hunting license.

Allen, All hound hunters in NC do not feel that a current Dog Hunting lobbyist is doing a good. I do not agree with there position against Sunday hunting nor do I think they have a good lobbyist. You need to do some research on that topic about past employers. I do thing all hunters should stand together on Sunday hunting in both Va & NC. I am dog hunter that lives in NC and hunts both Va and NC.

What someone says and what someone can prove is one of the bones of contention in this discussion. And that is where the problems comes in. I can say the world is flat but being able to prove it is another whole different story. That is why I have asked my question.

In reference to your web site posted it is talking about a "land owner organization that is still forming" that is no way associated with or working with any known Sunday Hunting group. Some are attempting to create one but again prove it will be hard to do.

Just last year there was a push to take away the right to retrieve !!! Who pushed that? Casper the friendly ghost?!

Land Owners. Again which Sunday Hunting group did this? Facts over come fallacies every single time. Could it have been land owners who have a problem with the law and still do?

Could it have been like Accomack county which happened last year where LAND OWNERS tried to stop all hunting with hounds and the Sunday Hunting group was the first to alert this webpage to the issue and then stood up in support of hound hunters?

I stated that I was not saying your group wasn't behind it Jerry. I was simply posting where it was coming from, since some think the Speeddoggers are pulling it out of their hat. I'm not arguing with you, I was for the SH Bill that passed this year, simply for landowners' rights.

Kevin....You bring up a good point!! That point being....there are fringe groups or whatever you want to call them, that are continually trying to push forth their "anti-hunting" agenda. Another reason that the VAST MAJORITY of hunters need to start making strides toward working together!

Jerry....Also a good point. As I recall, someone from the Sunday hunting contingent, did bring it to light here on SpeedDogs! Another good example of hunters working together! It can be done!!

If everyone would take a deep breath & stop the "he said-she said" allegations, steps could be made toward the preservation of hound hunting, Sunday hunting, & all other types of hunting.

There are "troublemakers" on all sides! No one organization is totally to blame, but they ALL SHARE in the discord among hunters at this time.

That's why I am hopeful that folks on all sides will at least make an effort to recognize & understand that underneath the differences, we ALL have a common goal....TO ENJOY HUNTING....and strides can be made to bring hunters together for the common good of all!

Stop the bickering and look for reasons to agree, & to move forward!!
If not, the "anti's" will prevail through the "divide & conquer" tactic!

Allan Bishop
(Jabber Jaw)

^^ What he said!

Well said Allen, Sunday hunting is great for who ever wants to do it

I have an interesting question for many of you on here. Can anyone show where the Sunday Hunting has done anything with any lawmaking body, land owners, or still hunters to improve or advance hound hunting?

Yes if you go back just a few months in Accomack county the BOS faced resolution ti ban ALL hound hunting. Sunday Hunters posted here and other places to alert hunters. They then stood in front of the BOS and supported hound hunting.

Also I know many who sent emails for several years in opposition to the HSUS effort to close pens.

Randall,

Good question, but there is no way to know if the addition of Sunday hunting is good or bad for hound hunting. Every state that allows hound hunting for deer except for Virginia and NC have always had Sunday hunting.

Which leads me to another point: The VaHDA leaders keep spreading false information. They use Georgia as an example of Sunday hunting leading to restrictions on hound hunting. Sunday hunting has been legal in Georgia for at least 50 years. Restrictions were placed on hounds in 2003 or 4. Every other state has always allowed Sunday hunting. No connection.

Steve

Is the Georgia model a bad one? It sounds like dog hunters and land owners have been living in harmony, ever since the new model was implemented. Does anyone know if there is any evidence that the new model, dating back to 2004, has been a problem for either landowners or houndsmen? The reports I can find on the internet say that the Georgia model has been a success, for both groups.

Maxwell......

I would imagine the answer to that question would depend on whom you asked.

And at this point in time to suggest the Georgia "model" is not needed!

A valid question, but no need to stir that pot at this time!

Folks are trying to adjust to the changes that have come about with the Sunday hunting legislation!

And the purpose of allowing these posts are to try and let folks see each side & each position.

This is primarily a hound hunting site, & some already feel endangered about hound hunting in the future.

So if you want to post...fine...but respect the hound hunters on here!!

Thanks,

Allan Bishop
(Jabber Jaw)

Mr. Jabber Jaw,

I really didn't intend to stir pot. It seems the last few posts on this thread were concentrated on hound hunting and the one directly above referenced the Georgia situation. It was an innocent and honest question.

Feel free to delete it If you thinks it's pot stirring. Sorry.

Max

Allen,

Thanks for allowing the discussion to continue. I suspect you're getting criticism for allowing the discussion, and I respect you for keeping it open. I am confident that bridges are being built.

Not that anything that I share is important, but I honestly hope that something I share will help grow the sport of hunting.

As you would know, I've been a very strong supporter of the expansion of hunting on Sunday. The key word is "expansion". I'm 53, and have never lived when it was unlawful to hunt on Sundays in Virginia, nor have I lived when it was unlawful to kill wild animals on Sunday. I've never lived when it was unlawful to run hounds on Sunday. VA didn't legalize hunting on Sunday this past legislative session, it agreed that the restrictions that applied only to Sundays were unreasonable, and they removed them.

I understand from years of sharing this argument....that there are many that can't grasp the concept. But, for decades VA refused to budge on it's Sunday hunting regulations based on a declared day of rest for it's wildlife. There's been no day of rest.

I honestly believe that excluding hounds for deer and bear makes no sense from a basis of faith or safety. But that's my opinion. I've fought for the inclusion of hounds on Sunday, and I'll continue that fight.

I don't own hounds, but I wrote lawmakers and supported the bear hound training seasons, increases in raccoon chase seasons (first east of the blue ridge and later west of the blue ridge), fox preserves, increases in rabbit dog training, and the new squirrel dog training seasons. I'm sure I've missed some.....but I've always tried to be involved, and whenever involved, supportive.

IMO, for what's it worth, hound hunters need to take a close look at what they have, what they do, and how to protect it's future. I'm convinced that hounds in VA have a secure future, so long as the issues that threaten hound hunting are addressed now.

Hound hunting's future, IMO, is much like the future of the pens......reasonable compromise ensures our future. Refusal to compromise threatens our future.

I've always believed that legislated liberty justifies that like liberty be legislated. In other words, because it's lawful to hunt with hounds for some species, it's justified that hunting with hounds for all species be lawful on Sundays.

I'm certain there will be those that say that they wouldn't turn loose on Sundays anyway.....which is fine. I'm certain others would say that running hounds on Sundays will be the end of hound hunting. My question is.....if Sundays are a threat, wouldn't everyday have to be a threat?

Randall,

I can only speak for myself. I've been as involved in changing VA's Sunday hunting regulations as anyone. During the recent past VA has increased hound hunting, including Sunday access, for bears, raccoons, rabbits and squirrels.....and as a Sunday hunting/hound hunting supporter, I actively supported all of these changes/increases. Never did I fight against these increases, even though I don't own hounds.

Yes, these are chase/hound training seasons, but it would be impossible to argue that they weren't direct advances and improvements in hound hunting.

I argued strongly in 2012, and again this session that the exclusion of hounds was wrong. But, the VaHDA has a much stronger voice than just one person that had a passion to Legalize Virginia Sunday Hunting for All.

Your questions are reasonable. I hope this is a reasonable question as well......what has the hound hunting community done to improve or advance hound hunting?

The last question should have read.....What has the hound lobby done to improve or advance hound hunting that wasn't at the expense of many hound hunters and a majority of other hunters?

What has the hound lobby done to improve and/or advance hunting for the entire hunting community?

I read lots of post where there is concern about getting cited when picking up dogs on Sundays, that were left out from Saturday. If I understand the law correctly, deer season closes each day at one-half hour after sunset? So regardless of any change in Sunday hunting laws, if hounds are out on Sunday.....it would be in violation.

This has never been enforced, and I have faith in the responsibility of hound hunters to find ways to keep Sunday hound retrieval from becoming a threat to hound hunting liberties. You can thank the VaHDA for this situation.

My opinion is that anything and I mean anything that divides the majority to this extent is not worth its weight. I think what all hunters, houndsman, ect.... should look at is this "Is the subject of Sunday hunting worth this much controversy" I say no. I think we (houndsman)are shining a light on a subject that we may want to just let go. We have alot of gray area in the laws about Sunday hunting that you should think about. Laws that are not enforced about running hounds...We all love to hear a good Sunday race and right now we can enjoy that. Is it legal to do so. I don't know but I've never been cited for it. So do we really want to wake up this dog. He may bite the houndsman hard...just my two cents....

Roy Jarman

Roy,

You just hit the nail squarely on the head.

I hope that someone will get a hold of Kirby and set him down and explain that the county resolution is a huge threat to hound hunting liberties.

I wrote Powhatan County and assured them that the resolution is nothing they'd want to endorse. The resolution basically would have the County BOS hanging "No Sunday Hunting" signs on every acre of land in the county.....and at the same time having the BOS issuing every hound hunter a written permission slip to all the lands that were just posted. Landowners will not stand for it. Especially landowners that don't want hunting on Sunday or hound hunting on any day. VA's allowed hunting on Sundays for decades.....and to continue to fight against conventional hunting, and fight for just hound hunting.....well it ain't gonna end well. And, IMO, once the residents get wise to it, they won't stop at just Sunday....they'll demand that hound hunting be restricted everyday. And it'll grow to them asking that target shooting be restricted on Sundays.

There's a heck of a lot more residents in every county that don't hunt than there are residents that do.

My sister told me about your post. I saw it and I liked it. Let me also share with you that if you are a Lowe's customer and want to know how to parti****te in the Lowe's Customer Satisfaction Survey and earn a $500 gift card voucher, you can visit the link lowes.com/survey You can get information on And can win gift card vouchers.