Fellow hound owners and hunters. What I am going to post is going to upset some but believe me when I tell you- I am as hard core deer hound hunter that lives in the South today and I own 15-20 hounds. We are catching it from all angles, trying to stop you from breeding, stop you from pen hunting, stop deer hunting on gameland and stop you from hunting deer with hounds. I will be the first to say groups of non-hunters (HSUS) and certain hunting groups alike are trying to take our sport and way of life away. I will stand up as long as I breath and fight for those rights. But, (this is the part that is going to hurt) you are either part of the problem or part of the solution. What do I mean by this. Well if you back up on a peice of land, dump out 15 to 50 high strung hounds that have been up all week- that you can't catch for 8-15 hours, knowing they are going to get somewhere in 30 minutes where someone is going to call the law, contact county commissioners etc.-and it happens every Saturday-guess what above category you may fall in. Maybe you need to rethink if you are giving your enemy ammunition. I have done it all, believe me, there are no wings on my back-but if we want to keep our rights, you have to consider your own actions as possible problems. I will not tell you what you may need to do to decrease these issues-we are all smart enough to figure that out. I know that hounds get by you-and if they occasionally get on posted land, others should work with you. But if it is every Saturday then think about it. I hope everyone understands that I love all my hound hunting brothers-and I will stand behind you-but we have got to get smarter. This has been on my mind for a while and I have hestitated to say my mind because I don't want to upset any of my brothers. Think about it! How bad do you want to keep doing this? I want to do it to my last day. Things change-I hate it as much as the next hunter. I could not sleep Monday night thinking about the N.C. Big Game meeting, and this is not the first night of sleep I have missed worrying about losing my favorite thing to do. What will I do if they stop it, crap like that going thru my head.

no matter how hard u try 2 get along and do the right thing u are always gona have controversty wit hunting wit dogs. n westen halifax county in nc is dog hunting country and 85 percent is hunted by dog hunting clubs. and stil we have problems

people say running a deer with 15 hounds is cheating. but if you think about it try and shoot a deer running 30mph and then go sit in a stand over a corn-pile and shoot at a deer standing still and tell me which one is cheating. just my openion. Next if they shut down the fox pens think of how many yotes are in the pens and that are going to put peoples kids in danger playing in the yard after they make them release all the game. Next what are people going to start doing with their hounds if the put a stop to all this? your going to see hounds everywhere on the side of the road and all in town b/c people aint going to keep 20 hounds to feed and not get anything out of it. This is just me putting my 2 cents in this but its just what I think.

James that was a good post and yes I have also not slept good some nights. I can not imagine not being able to run my hounds on deer foremost or any other game in or outside the pen.

I may be part of the problem,but I'm also willing to expore new solutions to the problem, maybe even something similar to GA. Then I would know for sure but all the other clubs/people would not have to pay the price when people go to the county commissioners. It would be a price I'm willing to pay to make sure deer hunting with dogs is here to stay. I know my thoughts on this is probably not making me popular, but trust me this is not something I have recently started thinking about I'm really concerned about the future of our lifestyle, if we continue down the same road.

No Mr. Morgan, it doesn't hurt. It is fact. This exactly what I have been saying for the last two years. We as hound hunters have to be realistic and understand that society and demographics of where we hunt has changed. For hound hunting to survive, we must change with it. If we refuse to bend an inch, we will just watch it be eliminated. I love this sport as much as anyone but, I have read hundreds of complaints from the public that were sent to the SAC. Sure, there are a few bad apples that make everyone look bad but, the bad apples aren't all the problem. "Public Perception" is something that we must pay attention to, whether we like it or not. You hit it on the nail head about the improper use of hounds. Many owners need to re-evaluate where they hunt and "Dog Down". We have found out that cross breeding bird dogs with beagles and walkers make superior deer hounds. High speed, lots of mouth and short range. We as hound hunters need to focus on education for all hound hunters. Though each club president should take the lead in their group, hound owners needs to hold each other accountable. Someones bad practices is going to take your love away. Sorry, I will point fingers and **** people off if I have too, in order to save this sport.

Gentlemen, I have deer hunted with dogs since 8-10 years old and I am stirring at 39 next month. I still have trouble going to sleep the night before a hunt day with excitement. As a boy-Friday night I watched the Dukes of Hazard and was made to go to bed when Dallas came on. I would lay in the bed for hours with excitement and could not sleep. I love it! I got into Fox trailing and have had 40 hounds at one time. Had some good luck and met some great people alot like me. Two years ago- I went to beagles, caught alot of grief from some friends but I was tired of sitting on posted land looking dogs all night. I have stared down the barrel of a .357 trying to help a friend get his hounds up. I have done it all! Some say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. I still hunt my home ground but joined a large hunting club in a very rural area to hunt some without incident. I will not say what you may need to do-but if you are part of the problem-do something different! I love you all, but if you are constantly getting run off-getting the entire hound community in hot water-please re-evaluate.

You Load, cast, Run, and reload and put them back in the pen in 90 minutes and you are spoiled beyond repair.... LOL..

Gary, you know my heart-preachers say things in church that I don't exactly like to hear-but they tell what is needed, out of love. Yea, never could get a good chase together down Arcola way, but enjoyed myself, made new friends, and didn't start/ create issues with the neighbors. I am not saying go to beagles, I am saying what I have done. Had the road lined up last year and a deer got across on the next man down, jumped in the truck to help and at least 18 walkers came across. We ran ourselves to the brink of a heart attack catching none. Looked at the other guy and said I thought we would grab a couple- he looked at me said we had a better chance of catching the deer when it crossed. I laughed but he was right. If your area is smaller, turn fewer out, break them to be able to be caught with training collars, rent more land, do something because we ain't going to keep fighting this off. Don't be the person that says I am going to keep doing this till I can't do it anymore, because with that attitude, it want be long. That's ignorance! Not only will you loose your love but you will cause everyone else to lose their joy also. I know that some people are unreasonable about letting you get your hounds, but decreases in the times you need to retrieve won't hurt. And Gary, you are right about all that you said about loading running and putting them up in 90 minutes. Can't kill'em 10 miles over on posted land anyway.

I AM NOT GOING TO GET DOWN AND START CONCEEDING DEFEAT, At least until I am convinced that all are going to sit on there dead back sides and let it happen thinking the few of us are going to be able to hold it together for the many.
I stood with the guys in your county and I have stood with the guys from other counties. As long as time and finance allow I will stand some more.

WAY TO EARLY for being down, Changes very well may be coming....and some common since may be at hand.

(Not mad or negative in any way so NO ONE take it that way please.)

Well, we all seem to be on the same page. So do we leave it to chance and hope everyone listens? Or do we seek change, so that those who don't conform, don't slowly get it outlawed for everyone, a little at a time. What do ya'll suggest(in NC)? I'm willing to help as much as I can, to find common ground and a solution that will work. Feel free to E-mail: cecgrader@gmail.com

You ask for it: I can tell you how to keep deer hunting with dogs.

State law require:

1. No club allowed more than 10 dogs cast at one time.
2. All dogs wear GPS and Quicktrack collars.
3. All dogs wear Tritronics training collars.

You have to know where your dog is an what "Come here"
means.
If you would approach your wildlife department with these rules. They would get behind your right to hunt with dogs. And you are welcome.

Sorry, I don't agree nor could I support all of the suggestions that were proposed for N.C. All of us are in the very same boat. There is no difference. We are all being attacked by the HSUS. What you are dealing with at the game commission level you can rest assured that somewhere in the background the HSUS is lurking. Education for hound hunters and the public is the answer. Hound hunters must get off their high horse of entitlement and understand that John Q Public has issues with some of our ways. Do we give them up for his sake. NOT EXACTLY but, we owe the public the courtesy to listen. Take a look at ourselves and the way we practice our sport and make some adjustments. Is that so hard? Find it in yourself to say "I'm Sorry" when you find them ****** because your hounds got on their property. You can't promise it won't happen again but, you can promise you will TRY to prevent it. Is it so hard to get out and knock on doors before the season and introduce yourself? Is it so hard to learn the value that hound hunting brings to your state? This information needs to be taught to the public, who is going to do it? YOU ARE!!! Times have changed, what we did for the last 40 years is not going to be allowed in the next 40 years. We need to work on our own credibility so we can tear down the credibility of the HSUS (and BOY!!, DO THEY HAVE SOME GHOST IN THEIR CLOSET) I realize that Old School does not want to change. I am sorry but, we have to, too survive. Everyone needs to start doing your homework. Start researching the HSUS and all of the dirt they are tied too. On the same token, start researching public complaints against hound hunting and think about what you and your club can do to make things right. Once evryone can agree that we do have some issues, we are on the road to recovery.

Jim, Darron had asked for suggestions. We have already lost the right to hunt hounds in our county because hard-heads would not listen. I run coyote all summer on the property of the land owners that had dog hunting stopped here. They know I can control my dogs. No matter how hard they are running when I blow the whistle, they come to the truck. It takes a liitle time to train a hound to handle that well. But as long as people hunt what they call "units", they don't deserve to be called houndsmen. All my dogs have a name and they know it.

I think some good has come from the 4 or so people who read this post. Problem is, many more never read never thought and don't think they can lose their rights. I actually think correction to most of the issues could be addressed in a different way. I believe the way to get the desired outcome will come by providing bonuses for those who take steps that decrease trespassing issues. Instead of passing rules that say you can't do this-come up with list of ideas that would help the situation-and reward clubs or individuals who do these things. I have been in management long enough to know that take aways are veiwed as negitive and to obtain what is desired-say what you would like and be willing to give to those who meet these wants. You want the bonus to be something so much better that the majority will do whats needed to get to receive it also. I am not sure if everyone can understand what I have just written but I think this is the way forward. An example would be maybe having a "certified pack" otherwords you would say if your pack meet this such and such-you would be awarded maybe 2 extra weeks at the end of the season. Say you could show you could turn your dogs loose and load them in 10 minutes if they are not running- your pack would be certified and you and your clubs got to hunt longer or something? Or maybe your club can become certified if you rent X amount of acres. Anyway the reward would have to desired.

James the solution to our problems isnt something we can buy or rent. It is some thing we are losing every day : Respect and Tolerance.
Houndsmen have to understand the power of positive image. Running around acting like our enemies( anti's HSUS ) doesnt make us any better. They can say and act anyway they want, cause at the end of the day what do hunters really do, we chase and kill. We got a negative from the start.
Your dogs get on someone else's property,; be apologetic and sympathize with the owner and say SORRY. No matter how they act, show respect. ( this is an area I'm am tring real hard my self to work on , and believe me it aint eazy!)
People that dont understand fox pens; spin it into a positive light. Not trying to kill , but enjoying the chase thats all. Keeps us off private property.
I have said this before, club presidents have to be ambassadors to the community during the season. Hunters have to be ambassadors to their sport ALL THE TIME.
Common courtesy is still free and can go along ways. No membership required!

I agree with ya'll respect and tolerance goes a long way. The club I hunt with has got better at this and most people seem to tolerate us. It is as much as we can ask for but I have had to bite my tongue on occasion (actually get easier). I've gained the respect of many of those who don't exactly like the hounds. However, like Amos said I fear others will out weight my good efforts. By the way I have thought about the e-collars. Could use some pointers. For the most part I only hunt on the outside with decent handling hounds.

Darron,
All e-collar systems come with a training video or book. Gundog supply has info at their website,I think. I can take a person's cull and within a year they wish they had em' back. lol If a dog will go hunting when you cut him loose, you can make a good handling dog out of him. Now, there is nothing you can do to make a dog hunt.

Do any of you know of any organizations that support some sort of change or are looking for a probable solution? As someone stated "that could make all parties equally unhappy".

In my opinion, education is a must. Without it, it is quite difficult to find a good job. I decided to get a law degree and am now preparing to take the entrance exam. I found https://edureviewer.com/princeton-review-vs-lsat-max/ where, thanks to a review, I took a course to prepare for the exam. And hopefully I will be able to prepare successfully.

Great post James. I will start by saying we have had very few problems in Southside Virginia where I live. We were taught at a young age to respect the landowners, thier land, and the right to hunt. That has been a major success for the hunters in our community. As you said in your post, "We can be part of the problem or part of the solution". The people moving to the country for a bit of peace and quiet and buying 5-10 acres thinking they own 500 has been our only problem. I can't blame them for that, Have you been above the Mason Dixon Line lately ? We must respect the folks and their land no matter the size. Things have changed over the years, its all about the money anymore. I will end by saying Travis Tritt hit the nail on the head back in 2000 or so, "Country Ain't Country No More" Happy Hunting

We have seen our problems cut drastically here in my county in Florida by alot of the hound hunters training their dogs with shock collars. You can save alot of time and run alot more races if you can control your hounds, which is why I trained mine. This solution (along with running crosses and not turning out a dozen dogs at a time) would work to minimize the complaints.

It will work on those high strung registered walkers too as we run two packs of Pinedale Clown dogs that are trained too.