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It is not generally known but I understand that Thorpe Thewles once had a third and now lost public house in addition to the Vane Arms and Hamilton Russell Arms. This occupied the one of the first terrace houses in Wynyard Road just past and opposite St. James’ Church on the way into the village from the A177. The house that still occupies this plot appears to have a cellar entrance to its front complete with a covered manhole.
Does anyone have any information about this once licensed premise? I would particularly like to know if it had a name (i.e. pub name) and between which dates it operated.
I had a look in my 1894 trade directoty for County Durham. Listed are two public Houses in Thorpe Thewles. These are;
1) The Vane Arms; Occupied by a Mr. John Crone
2) The Hamilton Russell Arms; Occupied by a Mr. John Walker.
So I guess the third pub you mentioned either finished trading before 1894 or didn't open until after that date.
Hope this helps.
I purchased 23 Wynyard road in 1994 to 2002. The previous occupant was a spinster called Miss Usher who lived there all her life and lived to a ripe old age, (still remember her delivering the papers in all weathers).
I was told that the property was a public house once upon a time, the cellar you metioned did have steps down from the front garden and an entrance into the house, within the cellar there were old window shutters.
There was a number of very old documents and papers that gave a history of the property including the deeds which had all previous occupants, death certificates etc including the purchase prices, with these documents there is also a lot of history of the area. I am sure that Mr and Mrs Robb who bought the property would not mind you looking at these docs if still available.
I would be interested in your future findings.
This may have been the forerunner of the Vane Arms. Public houses in the 1800's tended to be one storey and through modernisation became two storey.
It may be that the new premises took on the name of the old. Am looking through the censuses to see if this makes sense.
If we look at the censuses we have the following innkeepers / publicans / licensed victuallers
1841 Christopher Warwick
1851 Joshua Lunn
1861 James Hodgson (also a grocer) and Thomas Arrowsmith at the Hamilton Russell (first mention)
1871 James Hodgson (also an aerated waters manufacturer) at the Vane Arms (first mention) and Thomas Arrowsmith at the Hamilton Russell
1881 James Hodgson (also farmer) at Vane Arms and John Walker at Hamilton Russell
1891 John Crone at Vane Arms and John Walker at Hamilton Russell
1901 Hannah Crone (widow of John) at Vane Arms and Robert Ayre Walker at Hamilton Russell.
Does the Vane Arms or the other property have a date on them or is anyone in possession of the title deeds for the property?
Keep Smiling .... Paul
Hi Just reading your message regarding third pub and the John Walker publican /Bricklayer born 1851 Norton you mention who was Landlord of Hamilton Russell arms was The Son in Law Of Thomas Arrowsmith 1804 -1882 Also publican of Hamilton Ruseell Arms Thomas,s Daughter Jane Arrowsmith Married John Walker on 2 Feb 1877 St James Thorpe Thewles Grindon Parish I descend from John Walkers Brother Robinson Walker Who was Born 1838 Norton and Who Is also Described as Inn Keeper in 1888 He Ran the Unicorn Inn in Norton at That time as well as Being A bricklayer he Helped Construct the Viaduct at Thorpe Thewles So I wonder if Publicans were seasonal Work as His full time Job was Bricklaying as Was his brother John anybody else have any views on this ? regards Dave
In short, the role of the publican (or licenced victualler or innkeeper) was and is dependent on the passing trade. In larger areas they were 'tied' to the public house, whereas is smaller areas they did what they could to make ends meet.
With the law at that time a married woman's goods were her husband's so the wife may have run the public house under her husband's name.
It is interesting to note that this trade, usually, ran through families with subsequent members moving to a bigger establishment (bums on seats and not floor area that is) or moving from one area to another. They would be licencees and not freeholders.
Do what you know best as they say.
Keep Smiling ... Paul
Licensing laws are a recent introduction (implemented in Great War (?)) hence the reason for so many pubs in such a short area. Would be safe to assume that they either obtained their produce from same supplier or made their own so their success boils down to taste or how well they kept the ale.
in the 1860s and 1870s the landlord was Thos Arrowsmith