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I know I have been accused of rambling and some get humor out of my typological wording truth is i can write with correct Grammar and punctuations. I am country have country sound and talk same oh well I say what say if I make a point good if not oh well..
I am looking at this bill as well as the other bill's that are going through the Senate. Sending e-mails and calls with correct Grammar intelligence and courtesy.
I feel like maybe a different approach may help with getting the wording in the bill you want. I have not forwarded this to anyone just putting it here as a thought or opinion.
Fact: We as hunters are responsible for these bills getting pushed. How? By not policing our own hunting groups. Its not all nor is it the majority but there are a select few hunters that make life for hounds man horrible at times. Case in point, About 10 years ago opening day of gun season I was accused of crossing a farmers field and shooting wildly at deer as they crossed. This is a Practice I have NEVER BEEN ASSOCIATED WITH and or accused of till that day. the culprit had a truck similar to mine and did not have permission just took it on himself to turn his hounds out and go for it.I said that because it could happen to anyone. The thing is that I left at 2 am that morning and drove 2 and 1/2 hours from home to hunt new land. I returned that night around midnight and the next afternoon I got a call and that Is when I found out what happened and that my name was put in as the one who did the idiotic crap. I loaded my hounds and went straight to the land owners and filled them in quickly and politely on where I had hunted that day and the day before. Both land owners stated they knew it was not me as I had hunted their land for many years without one complaint. To this day I am still allowed. The point is I strive to hunt Ethically. I want take a cross road shot or shoot near houses and so on. Matter of fact I said it before would rather her the hounds hammer the game and a rookie kill nice buck.
It has been said here its brown its down!!!!!!!!!!!
While I can see choices have to be made at times to stop game in order to keep hounds off opposing property last chance roads large pack of hounds best way to stop hounds is stop the game. Shooting everything a hound jumps and parading it on the back of your truck for all to see puts a sour taste in most anyone's mouth. EVEN other hunters especially tree huggers who shoot managed land and take only really nice bucks. When they see a 60 pound spike buck on a truck that came off land that is next to there land well getting permission to catch your hounds is gonna be slim to none.
Another point is that there are enough hunters who don't care about another persons property so long as they catch there hound or kill a deer.I said before 100 good honest hunters to one bad hunter the bad will be what is seen and talked about and 101 hunters take the heat. So what do they do they cross fields there not supposed to, they shoot from center line on the highway and as far as I am concerned that should be completely outlawed it is nonsense to shoot at a running deer in the middle of a high travel or even medium to low traveled highway. These 300 mags 7 mm and big rifles travel along distance a ricochet off asphalt could end in disaster.
There are a few hunters that simply don't care and will fire off or strip out on a basket rack 8 pointer like it is a moose not even knowing where there bullets are going in some cases not knowing what is on the other side of a tree line ETC. I said that to say this. We need to weed out the bad apples. If not every opportunity that comes up for a vote to control or stop or make it difficult for our way of hunting is going to happen.
Here is something that is a possibility that would help. As it stands the bill has been written we are trying to amend it to help in retrieval of our hounds. Life is as it is you have to give to receive.
I think a Good faith testament from as many hound running clubs as possible that show bi-laws for rules for the club that include harsh stiff punishment to any hunter caught hunting,shooting,trespassing or any other form of UN-Ethical hunting of any sort. Harsh fines suspension or what ever it takes to show that the Good hunters out way the faulty hunters and we as hounds-man will not stand by and allow this crap anymore. I think most would agree it does not matter who causes the problem the hound hunting hunters take the blame regardless. By far we are more visible to the public than still hunters. Coon Hunters hunt at night so not as visible. Bear hunters are short season hunters. Rabbit hunters stay on small areas and are not shooting from highways or land that is posted, So the deer and Fox hunter are way more likely to get blamed for mis-haps or bad decisions by other hunters and so on.
I am not trying to ramble I am seeking a solution.
I think the law makers would be more willing to entertain or compromise on definitions of retrieving hounds and or coming to an agreement we can all live with. If land is posted don't go om it call ask for permission or sit there and wait em out. There is a large tract of land near an area I used to hunt. All the hunters that hunted the area as a group always said don't let your hounds get in there that dude is an blank he is crazy Etc. It is heavily posted and has numbers on the signs. Naturally when there is land you don't want your hounds to get on they are going to. I had 8 get across in there and had sat and waited for 2 hours listening to them run and watching a really nice buck they were running cross the back of a field could not go in so had to see if they would cross out. I finally went to a posted sign and called the number and asked could I go get my hounds politely. At first they said no and I asked if I left my guns out by the road or called them as soon as I got my hounds could I go and assured them I would only use good paths and not go after hounds near any bad holes.I also garunteed would not shoot at anything. The owner said go ahead don't shoot in there and call me when you come out. I said Thank you several times went in got my hounds and took all good roads avoided any path with mud holes and when I caught up immediately came out called the owner thanked him and offered him some Deer meat from the next Deer I bagged. Here is the point. !!!!!!
Most problems with land owners come from Rogue hunters who shoot everything they see bag twice the legal limit and have huge tires and intentionally go through mud holes one to see if the can make it and to get there truck muddy. Why anyone thinks a mud covered truck is cool I will never understand.
My current club gets permission slips from all surrounding clubs and passes them out every year as written permission to retrieve hounds from other clubs and surrounding land. This is completed well in advance to the hunting season. It is a great asset to the running grounds and has made great relations amid all the club lands and surrounding land.
This is something that could be added into the bill by utilizing club by-laws and a little courtesy to land owners. You get the permission before opening season so you are not attempting to track down a land owner who may be pre-occupied and don't want to fool with the hassle on the spot. As far as posted land without information on the signs you probably want get permission at all unless you approach at a time convenient for the land owner and give assurance that there land will be respected or there will be harsh repercussion to violators. Instead of lawmakers and WRC making the rules we as clubs should be ahead of the game!!!we should have options that protect the land owner,rules to regulate hunters and give the owners some peace of mind that there will not be any rogue hunting on. There land, paths, and crops will be respected and any concerns that may arise will be handled.
I am just like any other hounds man I hate for my hounds to get on land I cant go on. Cant stand it when there near highways but it happens. If I loose a hound I am loosing a pet and a friend not just a hound.I try to work hounds to handle easy and or return to cast after done running. Don't always work but nothing is perfect things will always happen. If we make every effort to prevent problems and have a solution to hounds crossing into another club or private land rules that state instead of 20 trucks going off club to get hounds only a few work together to catch any and all hounds out of the land.
Last thing about this is that NCFB Is protecting there assets. Here is another problem! Regardless of written permission or not if you get injured on another land owners land there insurance or the owners are open for a law suite. That is why The insurance is high on leased land and why some Large tract land owners insurance will not allow Field trials, It is a liability to the land owner to allow you on there land, Besides ? is causing a big scene over getting hounds or killing a deer really worth giving anti's ammunition to help there cause to stop hunting. Every time a hunter goes rogue not only does it affect the club itself it also looks bad for all running hounds man. It makes land owners mad they complain to WRC who comes down on Deer hunters more than any. It does not look safe smart or even ethical to ride down a major highway such as HWY 17 and see 15 trucks with Dog boxes lined down the side of the road some not even off the road and one two or even all standing on there dog box with a high powered rifle. It could be paint ball guns or BB guns all the passer by see's is large rifles with long range bullets just a little something to think about. As far as catching a hound on the highway the state owns from the double yellow line to the ditch so your permission is with the state license so dont fuse over something that just needs clarification. Demanding the right to enter someones property without permission makes us look bad as if we deserve special treatment. A thief enters posted and non posted land steals what they want and violates the home and land owners personal property though its not the exact same it has meaning,. I am done maybe some good info maybe not.
Sir you are missing the point. Its not just against dog hunters its against all types of hunting and fishing. It is a step toward stopping all types(still hunting included). NO one should be allowed to prosocute any body for being on there land but the land owner not a game warden or sheriff.Dont u think if you have a son he should be able to hunt on your land without wriiten permission and not worring about getting a trespassing ticket without you knowing about it.
Mr. Bullard. I assure you I am not missing the point. I agree 100 percent it should be the landowners decision on whether or not to pursue legal actions. with that said it is also the Land owners option on whether or not to allow you to enter there property for any reason. WHILE it is frustrating to have hounds leave your hunting area it is an issue that has no reasonable way to prevent.
In response to your post as well as the post below on why this bill is in legislature? It is sad to say that whether this bill goes into effect or not there will be more legislative bills that are sent through until a resolution is made.
As I stated it is no secret on why this bill and others like it are being pushed. Land owners are fed up with getting harassed bothered and having uninvited hunters come on to there land without permission. When I first started hunting with hounds there were issues but none were as significant as current problems. There are simply to many times that private property is the center of controversy. As you stated the land owner should have the option to prosecute. Same token they have the option on letting you hunt there land or even enter there property for any reason. A small few hunters fill that since there are no posted signs every 10 feet then it is OK to drive into a landowners property and shoot deer or whatever the reason without first obtaining permission.
Please understand that I am against this bill. I feel that it is a doorway to the end of hunting of all kinds. There are options already in place that allow a land owner to protect there land and not have to put fourth any effort at all. If the land is registered with the NCWRC they enforce the trespassing and hunting on the property and the land owner has little to do other than contact request and register there land.
My point is why should a land owner need to do this in the first place. Lets Say you own 1000 acres of land and spend 5 years with quality deer management programs that set you up with some really nice bucks on your property. Now this is your land you own it and control it. On the last day of deer season Along comes Joe Smuck hunter who sees a very healthy large rack buck standing in a small field food plot you established and have maintained for the 5 years, Joe smuck rolls down his truck window and shoots the deer and runs out to the field and leaves with the deer that you had let walk all year long anticipating that the buck would be there next year as a trophy worth writing home to mom and DAD and Grandpa or kids ETC. How is this in any way fare to you as the landowner.
Before anyone lashes out and says well the land should be posted and marked no hunting. Yes I agree to a point but in the same token why should i as a land owner have to purchase signs and place them every 10 feet just to protect an investment made in QDMP. It is my land I should be allowed to enjoy it manage it and hunt it with out worry of Joe Smuck.
I was raised that if you saw a deer on someone else's property to look at it smile at the Beauty of Gods Creation in a awesome deer. Then find the land owner and ask for permission to hunt, If turned down move on. I see this as proper edicate for hunting. Granted when I started hunting there were a lot less hunting clubs and lots of Game Lands or public hunting land. Also landowners were in most cases glad to allow you to hunt so long as you followed there rules and request of what to shoot where and respected there property.
Over the years the few hunters who don't give a crap has made it to where farmers don't want anyone on there land. Private owners don't allow it and you have to have a bundle of cash every year to pay club fee.
My suggestion relatively speaking is lets approach this and any other bills that come about ( AND THERE WILL BE MORE) in a manner that alleviates the problems that got us here in the first place.
It don't matter who causes a problem or who tears a field up or shoots a cow and or kills a 6 year old buck that has been allowed to grow for the purpose of taking a trophy, The houndsmen are going to get blamed. THE still hunters will gain access to our land for tree hugging and then they will be attacked for the actions of others because there want be any houndsmen around to blame. That will then lead to no hunting.
I don't have the solution but feel that instead of a defensive approach. As an old saying goes cant beat em join em. In this case where you have permission to hunt you myself and anyone who loves to hunt any game make it known show the land owners we are here as friends and are willing to help resolve the complaints rid the bad apples so to speak. Approach the bill in a positive but assertive manner to go back in time where getting permission to hunt land for the upcoming season was as simple as knocking on a door with a smile and a polite request giving the owners peace that as a hunter you will take care of there land and respect any wishes even if it means letting a 4 year old 10 pointer walk. you got a place to hunt and run hounds, that's the end goal anyhow right,,,,,,?????????????????????????? Hope this sounds better for my point...
Marc you are right a few bad hunters cause problems for all hunter, but i assure you most of the farmers are not for this bill that is something Mr. wooten made up. I fox hunt on the outside run broke dogs the question i have besides paying to hunt is a man that goes to duck impoundments or a fox pen going to have to have wriiten permission. Also i agree with you a person should not be where he or she is not supposed to be in saying that why is this bill just pertaining to hunting or fishing why not all people trespassing weather horse riding, riding 4 wheelers or just walking around. TRESPASSING IS TRESSPASSING
EVERYONE,
WHILE I AGREE WITH A LOT OF WHAT HAS BEEN SAID REGARDING THIS PROPOSED LEGISLATION,CERTAIN FUNDAMENTAL QUESTIONS REMAIN,AT LEAST FOR ME.
THE BIGGEST CONCERN/ QUESTION I HAVE IS THAT THIS SEEMS TO BE PROCEEDING WITHOUT WHAT I FEEL SHOULD BE A NECESSITY, THAT IS,AN ACCUMULATION OF DATA EXPLAINING WHY THIS NEW LEGISLATION IS NECESSARY.HAS WRC OR ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY PROVIDED ANY INFO OR STATS SUCH AS ARREST/ COMPLAINT RECORDS TO SUBSTANTIATE THE NEED FOR WHAT I CONSIDER TO BE ELITIST DRIVEN UNNECCESSARY NEW LAWS.
MAYBE THIS INFO HAS BEEN PROVIDED,BUT I FOR ONE HAVE NOT SEEN IT.
ELITISM,THE NEED FOR IMPORTANT WELL PLACED PEOPLE TO TELL THE REST OF US HOW TO LIVE IS WHAT IS IN PLAY HERE.
JOHN M. MORSE,JR.
It all goes back to ethics and how you were raised! Hopefully you were taught as I was that respect is the most important thing and that ALL LAND SHOULD BE TREATED AS IF IT WERE POSTED!! Whether it has a sign or not. I run dogs outside as well and I have to go hours from home now to do that because of development in my community. I also share a family farm with my daddy and we own several tracts of land. I can't cast here for the fear of my hounds getting on someone else's land. I have already pressed charges on a man that shot and killed one of my dogs as I watched (waiting out by the road for him to cross out) and lost the case. I too, am having to fence in one of our farms to have a hunting enclosure for the pleasure of being able to run my dogs as I please. Oddly enough, as I am putting up wire just the other day a lady stops to ask what I am doing. I tell her and she replies to "oh we were just wondering and if you see hoof prints in the paths, its just me riding my horses". This lady has no permission and I don't even know her. Anyway, will I be able to prosecute her for tresspassing? Oh ye, the tract of land is registered with WRC!!Is this equal rights or what??
I don't like these bills and don't know why anybody should. I have contacted my Reps. and Sentor on my thoughts.
That said it will not be the end of the world either, here where I hunt and run my hounds we have had a written permission law to hunt since 1986, along with no road hunting and no loaded firearm outside a vehicle and not within reach, door closed.
I have my general insurance agent shopping for a replacement insurance policy.
I have notified Wooten that I will cancel as soon as I find a suitable replacement.
I live in NC but do all of my hunting in VA but that could change.
Besides, it is the principle of the thing.
We should also point out to our representatives that when we voted for them we thought they would pass laws that enlarge our freedoms, make government less intrusive.....not this kind of crap.
My premium with them is only $1,200 a year, but just think that if we get 100 people with that size premium to cancel, it would be a loss of $120,000 in sales.
If we could get 1,000 to cancel it would be a loss in sales of $1,200,000.
We should make every hunter we know aware of what they are doing.
CSSJR
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If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
neighbor's right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
in a manner we consider to be eccentric.
My insurance agent has informed me that they do not have an insurance carrier who will cover hunting accidents on my farm.
The only way I can get insurance is to sign an agreement excluding any hunting accidents.
I have no exclusion for hunting accidents in my Farm Bureau policy, so this is something to think about.
If anyone knows of an insurance carrier that does not require a hunting exclusion, please advise.
I am not really concerned about my neighbors but a trespassing hunter can sue for injury and that is something to consider.
CSSJR